tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7858950.post4204183242732000890..comments2023-05-31T14:16:36.022+03:00Comments on Otto's Random Thoughts: Response to an Old FriendJ. Otto Pohlhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07457089758142264049noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7858950.post-16649883879274854902011-11-13T19:05:08.849+03:002011-11-13T19:05:08.849+03:00It does depend on the institution, too. Right as I...It does depend on the institution, too. Right as I was getting my PhD, USC's Slavic Dept. hired someone who had no teaching experience but who had done research on a couple fellowships, and who was also recommended by profs that our profs knew, but primarily because her expertise was on the specific area they wanted (which not that many Slavists work on). But the USC is focused heavily on research (faculty teach 2-3 courses a year but are expected to produce a lot of research). When I interviewed at U. of Alabama, they told me research wasn't important--one article every three years would be enough to get tenure. At Occidental, the focus is on teaching since it's a small liberal arts college.Leo Tolstoyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09981175004364048601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7858950.post-46788379595219682782011-11-13T15:29:41.252+03:002011-11-13T15:29:41.252+03:00My experience has been that lots of people get hir...My experience has been that lots of people get hired with no publications and ABD, but no PhDs with lots of publications and no teaching experience ever get hired. Thus in real terms from my personal perspective the only thing that counts is teaching and publications do not count at all. No matter how many publications I get I can never get a job in the US because I was not a TA in the US. That is the reality.J. Otto Pohlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07457089758142264049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7858950.post-75591928169442619922011-11-13T07:21:11.541+03:002011-11-13T07:21:11.541+03:00Contrariwise, teaching does not trump research, ei...Contrariwise, teaching does not trump research, either. The two are in tandem and more or less equal in importance. Or at least that's what any U.S. history department is looking for when they advertise for a tenure-track position. Is his/her work interesting? Can he/she teach the courses we want? <br /><br />Anyway, I enjoy your blog very much.rhgreenehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01618771374202853049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7858950.post-2973688155121775322011-11-13T07:16:50.645+03:002011-11-13T07:16:50.645+03:00The profession does not "advertise" that...The profession does not "advertise" that teaching counts for nothing. I don't know where you got that idea -- certainly not from any historian at an American university.rhgreenehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01618771374202853049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7858950.post-56060954586563113872011-11-11T10:48:29.126+03:002011-11-11T10:48:29.126+03:00Maybe, but given that there was no way for me to a...Maybe, but given that there was no way for me to acquire any teaching experience and the fact that the profession does advertise that research is all that counts is publications and teaching not at all, I am not sure what I should have done differently.J. Otto Pohlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07457089758142264049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7858950.post-38301787634043490262011-11-11T01:27:42.015+03:002011-11-11T01:27:42.015+03:00If you didn't talk with any academics, I don&#...If you didn't talk with any academics, I don't think you should say that you were deceived, or that the claim was made. You made a mistake about the nature of the profession.Withywindlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11465319711207992232noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7858950.post-60583990813346827992011-11-10T12:18:12.583+03:002011-11-10T12:18:12.583+03:00Walt: Well your letters did do me a lot of good. B...Walt: Well your letters did do me a lot of good. But, just not in the US. So now I am joining DuBois, Baldwin, and Wright as an American in Accra.J. Otto Pohlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07457089758142264049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7858950.post-58024665994143227272011-11-10T12:14:44.372+03:002011-11-10T12:14:44.372+03:00Withywindle: I do not think any US academics other...Withywindle: I do not think any US academics other than Walt ever talked to me. They still refuse to talk to me. I e-mailed a bunch, but none of them ever answered my inquiries. For almost all my job applications I did not even get rejection letters. But, research on the internet regarding academic hiring indicated to me that research was the only thing that mattered and teaching did not count at all. It turned out to be the exact opposite.J. Otto Pohlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07457089758142264049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7858950.post-42545864451820626202011-11-10T08:00:20.052+03:002011-11-10T08:00:20.052+03:00Did any history professor in the United States eve...Did any history professor in the United States ever, in a serious conversation about the academic job market, tell you that teaching didn't matter at all for getting a job? I have never heard it stated seriously. That research matters too much, yes. But "research is everything" is a simplification in conversation that would never be expected to be taken literally.Withywindlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11465319711207992232noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7858950.post-24653792979218212832011-11-09T19:17:53.097+03:002011-11-09T19:17:53.097+03:00Another problem is that grad programs accept far m...Another problem is that grad programs accept far more students than the market can absorb. I know in the early 1990s, when Russian studies was collapsing, my college accepted a huge number of new grad students. The market gets saturated and no one can make anything resembling an informed decision. If you're on a search committee and you have 250+ applications to go through, you can't adequately judge each applicant. I think what happens is that the committee members look for letters of rec from someone they know, which is why I always felt my rec letters probably didn't do you much good.Leo Tolstoyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09981175004364048601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7858950.post-46703201397856850242011-11-09T12:00:42.802+03:002011-11-09T12:00:42.802+03:00I don't understand this. I took the claims tha...I don't understand this. I took the claims that research was important and teaching not at all seriously and it turned out to be completely wrong. I think the claim is made as a way of deliberately keeping people like me out. At this point I wish people would just admit that claim has no basis in reality.J. Otto Pohlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07457089758142264049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7858950.post-45858210465121402992011-11-09T08:03:05.661+03:002011-11-09T08:03:05.661+03:00When people say that only research is considered f...When people say that only research is considered for getting a job, or getting tenure, it's usually considered a bug, not a feature.Withywindlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11465319711207992232noreply@blogger.com